Napalm and Sucker Punch redux

[NocRob]

So something happened in the most recent EvE that merits discussion. I was attacked (as tends to happen), and the following ensued:

1) The attacker used Napalm.
2) The attacker lost.
3) I negated the shot.
4) I dodged the shot.
5) Napalm still landed.

For lack of a better phrase, that is insufferably stupid. Endeavor to fix mechanics that belie common sense.

While you're at it, consider changing Sucker Punch. At level 3, it should either be 60% to remove ALL debuffs or 100% to remove a single debuff. 60% to remove one debuff is pretty weak when you're getting jack hammered by napalm (see above), plague, suppress, ghost tag, etc.

Something to consider and discuss.

Thanks

[Savage1988]

So something happened in the most recent EvE that merits discussion. I was attacked (as tends to happen), and the following ensued:

1) The attacker used Napalm.
2) The attacker lost.
3) I negated the shot.
4) I dodged the shot.
5) Napalm still landed.

For lack of a better phrase, that is insufferably stupid. Endeavor to fix mechanics that belie common sense.

While you're at it, consider changing Sucker Punch. At level 3, it should either be 60% to remove ALL debuffs or 100% to remove a single debuff. 60% to remove one debuff is pretty weak when you're getting jack hammered by napalm (see above), plague, suppress, ghost tag, etc.

Something to consider and discuss.

Thanks

Agree agree agree agree! Goodness I couldn't agree more with you. Well said! It won't happen, though. Everyone is too high on ghosts, reapers, and terminators.

[DFish]

As a Titan and Reaper, I see both sides. I would like something like 25/50/75% for sucker punch. 60% is low, but lvl 3 plague only has 50% chance on loss.

Napalm is overpowered in that only will miss if the person is stimmed, but that's very rare, much lower than the 20% to block. Honestly it seems like 5 to 10% at best.

Napalm should work like plague or ghost tag, it should have an RNG element.

[Onur]

Napalm has rng when you are stimmed.

Napalm is there to have a kind of equivalent of the booby trap of heavy. If you heal when napalmed, you heal 10% less. (Time bombs are jokes. They are half effective against stim and heal. And their damage is a joke considering the unlimited reinforce of titans and the health loadouts. )

However, napalm is already way worse than the booby trap as it does not do anything when armor pack or stim is applied.

Making napalm worse should be out of question.

[NocRob]

I'm not asking to make it worse. I'm asking for its mechanics to actually make sense. If you think that the above scenario accurately reflects something resembling logic, then you are either flat wrong or a middling terminator. Napalm is broken. I'm asking for it to be fixed.

[Irish]

Im not a term but it makes sense to me. He lost so it would have done half damage, you negated with nanosuit which basically gives you no damage and provides some shield, you dodged which makes it so you recieve no damage, his nepalm landed cause its a status effect and none of the above skills have anything to do with status effects.

[Allwyn]

As a Titan and Reaper, I see both sides. I would like something like 25/50/75% for sucker punch. 60% is low, but lvl 3 plague only has 50% chance on loss.

Napalm is overpowered in that only will miss if the person is stimmed, but that's very rare, much lower than the 20% to block. Honestly it seems like 5 to 10% at best.

Napalm should work like plague or ghost tag, it should have an RNG element.

couldnt agree with you more on this.. Napalm is OP ...lands even if you are 1000 levels above you...

[mr_teflon]

whats being discussed in this topic is not exclusive to napalm, this happens with all debuffs in the game and yes it dont make any sense, you can dodge anything but the debuff still lands, same with nano suit and other dodge skills and it also happens when a enforcer deflects the shot, they just need to make it so this all makes sense, if you dodge the hit then no debuff, if the shot gets reflected back by a deflect then the debuff should go to whoever fired the shot and there is nothing wrong with napalm so leave it alone.

[Sticks_CHAOS]

Nanosuit - I don't care if your nanosuit prevented any damage - It's NAPALM, it's sticky gelatinous substance that is on fire. While you didn't get any damage when I threw it at you, it is still burning and you are unfortunately on fire taking damage - verdict? Working as intended.

Dodge - You dodged..congrats. You didn't, however, run away buddy. You had to get back in that building I threw the sticky gelatinous napalm. I see you in that window protecting your building...in the room that is now on fire. While you didn't take any damage due to dodge, you had to come back and defend...thus...You're on fire. Sorry - verdict? Working as intended.

Attack lost - Ouch...nice uppercut. You are bigger than me and I took a good shot. I lost more health than you. Guess what....I threw napalm on you and you're on fire. Deal with it. - Verdict? Working as intended.

Sucker Punch - working as intended. You can remove my napalm with one token.

[NocRob]

Nah. Napalm is broken. Needs to be addressed. It's the only skill that works win, lose, dodge, deflect, negate. Makes no sense, the puerile response above notwithstanding.

Even Plague only works 100% of the time on a win.

And again, I remove your Napalm with one token "60%" of the time. Quoted because my sucker punch failed 9 times in a row last EvE. Odds of that? 3 in 10,000. Sure...why not? Totally fair.

[UWE_Duke]

I think in this game dodge/nano/deflect is not equivalent to debuff resistance. If we made it so, they will become significantly stronger.

If you are so afraid of napalm/plague, consider adding resistance in following ways:
- Hospital Super Power, 20%
- Stimpack, 25% at level 3, 50% on self.
- Dobie, 2% - 10% resist to burn/napalm/poison/plague effect.
- Get stronger, that reduces many debuff apply chances by at least 50% including tag/plague. Napalm is not reduced I think because it a DOT damage and not that lethal. You do want to remove it if it's going to last for a while on you.
- Get your teammate stim you. If you are relying on the sucker punch, I have to say you have a very bad inactive team. EvE is designed for 80 vs 80, not 1 vs 10 or 1 vs 80. Defenders will need help to hold the building.

P.S. Buffing Sucker Punch % or change the skill a bit can be considered. This will be discussed.

[Allwyn]

love the reply..., dont cry get strong...

[NocRob]

Appreciate the response, Duke. Glad to hear a discussion will be had about the efficacy of Sucker Punch.

[Reaper9292]

I think in this game dodge/nano/deflect is not equivalent to debuff resistance. If we made it so, they will become significantly stronger.

If you are so afraid of napalm/plague, consider adding resistance in following ways:
- Hospital Super Power, 20%
- Stimpack, 25% at level 3, 50% on self.
- Dobie, 2% - 10% resist to burn/napalm/poison/plague effect.
- Get stronger, that reduces many debuff apply chances by at least 50% including tag/plague. Napalm is not reduced I think because it a DOT damage and not that lethal. You do want to remove it if it's going to last for a while on you.
- Get your teammate stim you. If you are relying on the sucker punch, I have to say you have a very bad inactive team. EvE is designed for 80 vs 80, not 1 vs 10 or 1 vs 80. Defenders will need help to hold the building.

P.S. Buffing Sucker Punch % or change the skill a bit can be considered. This will be discussed.

really napalm not that lethal ?.
damage over time and reduce health gain when u use health pack ?. it is as deadly as plague and tag.
u talk about stim as if it is that easy to stim a defender.
in a 30vs 30 actives battle if u try to stim the defender u will just help the enemy by detonating booby traps.
sucker punch is nice but the time it takes for u to go hit someone to remove ur buff is risky in a battle with high activity.
in my opinion if u hit with napalm and lose the chances to apply it should be halfed same as many other negative buffs.

[tambunan]

IMO, napalm wasn't that bad.. Sure you get damage over time but trust me - if you do have napalm eating your health for over 1000 - in case you're open defender, you're either: too strong, so the opponent does not attacks you; you're being in low activity war, or opponent changing route.

Usually napalm was pretty much combined with trap so healing efficiency was decreased. Or used in war with low activity. It was not by any means game changer, sure it helps attacker but not game changer. I don't see reason to tamper with napalm, don't get me wrong - sucker punch may need a bit buff, but nothings wrong with napalm.. Its a fixed damage over time - apply napalm on people with 7k health, lets see how long it will take to get him killed.

Whereas in most cases, the cause of dead was the opponents attacker were stronger than you.

[Ste]

Personally I think you need to weigh up the odds and % chances and the odds and % chances are stacked against Titans and enforcers. A defender requires more assistance from team mates than attackers require assistance from defenders. But while this game is attack driven and driven to accommodate top 5-10 empires the rest of the community either lump it or play elsewhere.

[Ste]

Fortunately the player base and devs ruined defenders strengths and abilities to hold attackers off.
What happened was good strong builds would be in lower tier empires and higher tiers. Lower tiers would compain they couldn't get through whilst higher tiers said they needed more strength (powers) to get through. Which is why they over powered adrenaline rush, powershot and overkill , pitbull lts. Along with adding a super plague instead of poison and bury, incinerate making every class except enforcers have skills and powers and lts to stop defenders holding buildings all war etc.. sniper,terms, reaper, assassin ghosts all have ability to do 500/1000 plus damage to a Titan of hit , where as other than enforcer build Titans do not have the ability to counter than kind of damage back in 1 hit and thus making it easy to defeat defenders and creating a offence eve for everyone

So as it's all contributed to att skills and powers , Titans and enforcers get the raw deal and just have to suck it up or change class.

[Andy_CO]

Fortunately the player base and devs ruined defenders strengths and abilities to hold attackers off.
What happened was good strong builds would be in lower tier empires and higher tiers. Lower tiers would compain they couldn't get through whilst higher tiers said they needed more strength (powers) to get through. Which is why they over powered adrenaline rush, powershot and overkill , pitbull lts. Along with adding a super plague instead of poison and bury, incinerate making every class except enforcers have skills and powers and lts to stop defenders holding buildings all war etc.. sniper,terms, reaper, assassin ghosts all have ability to do 500/1000 plus damage to a Titan of hit , where as other than enforcer build Titans do not have the ability to counter than kind of damage back in 1 hit and thus making it easy to defeat defenders and creating a offence eve for everyone

So as it's all contributed to att skills and powers , Titans and enforcers get the raw deal and just have to suck it up or change class.

I'm a maxed out level 3600 ghost, and this battle I've watched over 50% of my shots get nanosuited or deflected. Maybe just barely over 50%. This one titan, level 1600, has a 3* Strafe and I've watched him dodge/nano 4 and 5 shots in a row, multiple times. So tell me who's getting the raw deal here lol.

[Irish]

I see both sides. But really titans ability to half incoming damage has basically made it so that cripple is useless, which in my opinion is the best way to knock down high health enforcers. Then you can plague a titan but if he is big then you lose and it might take you 5 or more hits to get it to land. Then when you do get it to land the titan just sucker punches and removes it. Ive seen active titans absorb 100's of tokens. The skills a titan has are fine and it is probably the best skill set in the game along with ghosts. I dont think sucker punch needs to be revamped either as its already hard enough to kill them. If sucker punch goes up then plague, tag and suppress all need to go up. Ive lost matches where we have outnumbered the other team 3or 4 to 1 and still lost because titans become an insurmountable roadblock. Sometimes even if they arent active. That just seems stupid.

[fbc765]

i think in this game dodge/nano/deflect is not equivalent to debuff resistance. If we made it so, they will become significantly stronger.

If you are so afraid of napalm/plague, consider adding resistance in following ways:
- hospital super power, 20%
- stimpack, 25% at level 3, 50% on self.
- dobie, 2% - 10% resist to burn/napalm/poison/plague effect.
- get stronger, that reduces many debuff apply chances by at least 50% including tag/plague. Napalm is not reduced i think because it a dot damage and not that lethal. You do want to remove it if it's going to last for a while on you.
- get your teammate stim you. If you are relying on the sucker punch, i have to say you have a very bad inactive team. Eve is designed for 80 vs 80, not 1 vs 10 or 1 vs 80. Defenders will need help to hold the building.

P.s. Buffing sucker punch % or change the skill a bit can be considered. This will be discussed.

uwe_duke, why does it say ghost tagg has 80% chance on win yet sometimes u can hit for 5 wins before a tag lands ? Its makes me not wanna use it no more......