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Thread: EVE Revamp

  1. #1

    EVE Revamp

    First, let me say that this idea is based on feedback from friends within the game and posts that I have read within this forum. This is not something I'm suggesting based on a personal bias, but what I believe will spark life back into EVE.

    Recently, I noticed the empire information section now lists the average level of the toons within the empire. This got me thinking. What if the average level of toons in the empire is used as a "salary cap" for empires. Now I know that I've lost some of you right there, but please, let me explain.

    If you are unfamiliar with the salary cap in sports, there are two kinds. Not 100% accurate but, the hard cap means it is absolutely not possible to go over a set total team salary, and a soft cap, where teams are able to go over the set total team salary but must pay a luxury tax. What I am proposing is a soft cap for empires.

    Here is how the soft cap would work. Let's just say the average level cap is 2000. My empire has an average level cap of 2500. We must collectively pay an "upkeep" which would include anything from cash, items or even daily achievements. The higher you go over the cap, the higher the upkeep costs will be. Some empires will be able to pay it, some will not. This will be determined by activity. I haven't been able to narrow down the penalty for not being able to pay the upkeep, but two ideas I have had are the penalized empire is not able to participate in EVE or the penalized empire takes severe debuffs until it is paid.

    Here are the pros:
    1. Dead high-level meat shields will be kicked. If you can't pull your weight with activity, you're not worth having around.
    2. Low level BSI builds will become very valuable. In other words, strength below cap.
    3. High level LSI builds will become a liability, somewhat. Weakness above the cap will hurt the team. However, these builds will also be more likely to pay the upkeep more often than BSI builds as items and cash come more easily for them.
    4. High level accounts in LS, AF, etc. have NOTHING better to do. That's right. Until the recent empire upgrades, these empires weren't even making donations on a daily basis because they were done. So what happened to all the items they gained during that time? Nothing, they have a stock pile of those too. So now there are new upgrades. Guess what. It won't take them long to finish those either because of their stockpile of items. In fact, they're probably already done with them. This would also help these players achieve their daily achievements because paying your upkeep would count as the daily "donate XXX to your empire", which they were never able to get, and the new lifetime donation achievements.
    5. Last, but not least, competition. This is the most important part. There is a HUGE divide between the top 2, the top 5 maybe?, the top 50?, legend league, and everyone else. Until a drastic empire move is made like we've seen in the past, the only teams competing for the number 1 spot is LS and AF.

    Again, I'm not trying to break up LS, AF, etc. etc. etc. To be honest, if my current empire fails, I'll be knocking on the door of one of the top empires soon after. I'm saying, ok, if those empires want to stay together, they need to be able to pay a huge price.

    Please, let me know, in a polite way, why this won't work. I'm trying to work out scenarios in my head of how this could be exploited. I will post them at a later time but I would like your feedback first.
    Last edited by Guy; 01-16-2017 at 06:19 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: EVE Revamp

    Sorry, this should probably be moved to Suggestions. I get these two sections confused.

  3. #3
    Kingpin Dr death's Avatar
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    Re: EVE Revamp

    We are penalized now because we have no place to donate cash or an item. Try getting 320 achievements done when you are likely to have those 2 on of your list. Add to it the MVP, execute 10 players 50 levels+, beat 10 players 50 levels +, get an uncommon Lt, the Monday PVP standard and it gets to be quite tough to get an average of 4 from 80 players. More if you are slightly below that number. Not everybody wants to PVP or are built to win at 50+ and most will never see the board.

  4. #4

    Re: EVE Revamp

    So you're saying that your inability to charge your super power is already rebalancing EVE?

  5. #5

    Re: EVE Revamp

    If this idea is implemented, and if the cap is the empires' average level, all empires will just kick lower level toons to increase their average. This will discourage all new players to enter the game and it will be the death of UE.

  6. #6

    Consigliere Game Guru

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    Re: EVE Revamp

    I said many moons ago ( Back in the year 2013 ) that UE needs a level CAP rule for EvE! This was back when the highest level in the game was less than 2k.

    A level CAP in UE where the average level of an empire can't be above a certain level will truly change EvE for the better IMO.

  7. #7

    Re: EVE Revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan_Man View Post
    If this idea is implemented, and if the cap is the empires' average level, all empires will just kick lower level toons to increase their average. This will discourage all new players to enter the game and it will be the death of UE.
    I see where your misunderstanding is. The cap is not set by the average level of the empire. The cap would be set by the developers of UE. The empires average level must stay below that number or be punished / pay an upkeep.

    Example with extreme examples:

    Level cap set by UE developers is 1000.

    Best Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 2000
    Toon 2: Level 2000
    Toon 3: Level 2000

    Average Toon Level: 2000
    Upkeep: $20 Trillion Dollars, 1,000 Donation Items per day

    Second Best Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 1501
    Toon 2: Level 1001
    Toon 3: Level 501

    Average Toon Level: 1001
    Upkeep: $1 and 1 Crown Jewel per day

    Worst Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 100
    Toon 2: Level 100
    Toon 3: Level 100

    Average Toon Level: 100
    Upkeep: $0

  8. #8

    Re: EVE Revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by chelsea View Post
    I said many moons ago ( Back in the year 2013 ) that UE needs a level CAP rule for EvE! This was back when the highest level in the game was less than 2k.

    A level CAP in UE where the average level of an empire can't be above a certain level will truly change EvE for the better IMO.
    I think "can't" is too harsh. I think it can, but there needs to be an upkeep cost.

  9. #9

    Re: EVE Revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy View Post
    I see where your misunderstanding is. The cap is not set by the average level of the empire. The cap would be set by the developers of UE. The empires average level must stay below that number or be punished / pay an upkeep.

    Example with extreme examples:

    Level cap set by UE developers is 1000.

    Best Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 2000
    Toon 2: Level 2000
    Toon 3: Level 2000

    Average Toon Level: 2000
    Upkeep: $20 Trillion Dollars, 1,000 Donation Items per day

    Second Best Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 1501
    Toon 2: Level 1001
    Toon 3: Level 501

    Average Toon Level: 1001
    Upkeep: $1 and 1 Crown Jewel per day

    Worst Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 100
    Toon 2: Level 100
    Toon 3: Level 100

    Average Toon Level: 100
    Upkeep: $0
    In this scenario, look what happens. Best empire ever says forget this, can't afford to keep the band together. 1 guy leaves out of frustration. This keeps happening until all of the empires are at an upkeep they can afford...

    Best Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 2000
    Toon 2: Level 501
    Toon 3: Level 100

    Average Toon Level: 867
    Upkeep: $0

    Second Best Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 1501
    Toon 2: Level 2000
    Toon 3: Level 100

    Average Toon Level: 1200
    Upkeep: $1,000,000 and 100 Crown Jewels per day

    Worst Empire Ever:
    Toon 1: Level 2000
    Toon 2: Level 1001
    Toon 3: Level 100

    Average Toon Level: 1033
    Upkeep: $1,000,000 and 50 Crown Jewels per day


    Now there is a much more even distribution of players among empires and competition will be much better!

  10. #10

    Re: EVE Revamp

    I don't know that I want to be punished with not being able to play with my friends that I built my toon with. Forcing me to pay a price for showing monetary loyalty to the game.

    Instead, they need to introduce a handicap buff when AVERAGE EMPIRE STRENGTH falls below a certain threshold.

    Average empire strength can be this.

    Total defensive power + total attack power / total number of members.

    If 80 members had an attack power of 1000 and a defensive power of 500 the average power of the empire would be 1500.

    Now Eve can be average power +\- a certain percent to determine matchups. If there is a difference of 10% or more buff the lower team within the 10% range to make it competitive.

    So the further you are from them the more you get buffed. If there is a 20% difference the lower team gets a 10% buff. If it's 35% give them a 25% buff.

    Then anyone can beat anyone.

  11. #11

    Re: EVE Revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcali1985 View Post
    I don't know that I want to be punished with not being able to play with my friends that I built my toon with. Forcing me to pay a price for showing monetary loyalty to the game.

    Instead, they need to introduce a handicap buff when AVERAGE EMPIRE STRENGTH falls below a certain threshold.

    Average empire strength can be this.

    Total defensive power + total attack power / total number of members.

    If 80 members had an attack power of 1000 and a defensive power of 500 the average power of the empire would be 1500.

    Now Eve can be average power +\- a certain percent to determine matchups. If there is a difference of 10% or more buff the lower team within the 10% range to make it competitive.

    So the further you are from them the more you get buffed. If there is a 20% difference the lower team gets a 10% buff. If it's 35% give them a 25% buff.

    Then anyone can beat anyone.
    What's the motivation to level and get stronger if the match making is just going to give you a bonus?

    Again, the upkeep cost is only for those who have gone over the average level cap limit. Most empires won't. Those that do can probably afford it. The hardest hit will be the top 5 overly stacked empires.

  12. #12

    Re: EVE Revamp

    Could always start with a baby step and redue the war board artwork. It's beyond dated.. the backdrop & buildings

  13. #13

    Re: EVE Revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy View Post
    What's the motivation to level and get stronger if the match making is just going to give you a bonus?

    Again, the upkeep cost is only for those who have gone over the average level cap limit. Most empires won't. Those that do can probably afford it. The hardest hit will be the top 5 overly stacked empires.
    I'm just not for punishing someone for supporting the game.

    The incentive to level and get stronger is engrained into the game from level 1. Who wants to sit at a level and not progress. There is still reason to level outside of Eve.

    In addition just because the game buffs you within 10% doesn't mean you even have a chance of winning. All it does it add the any given war, if everyone isn't on their game and the lower team shows up they can take it to them.

  14. #14

    Re: EVE Revamp

    To me this seems like a sad attempt at punishing empires you can't beat because your empire doesn't perform the way it should. It's not the top empires fault that you can't do what needs to be done to win wars. I've seen empires make it to top legend rank within their first week of being built. So it's really not hard. Don't try and punish others because you don't know what you are doing. It's just sad.

  15. #15
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    Re: EVE Revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr death View Post
    We are penalized now because we have no place to donate cash or an item. Try getting 320 achievements done when you are likely to have those 2 on of your list. Add to it the MVP, execute 10 players 50 levels+, beat 10 players 50 levels +, get an uncommon Lt, the Monday PVP standard and it gets to be quite tough to get an average of 4 from 80 players. More if you are slightly below that number. Not everybody wants to PVP or are built to win at 50+ and most will never see the board.
    @DR Death
    Thank you for bringing this subject up.
    Hopefully GAEA will listen to you. You are a veteran.
    Daily achievements need a revamp or nerf the current achievements!
    Since the new UL boss I don't do daily achievements anymore.
    Too difficult nevermind 8 daily achievements.

    On the subject of EVE revamp no comment. I don't have anything to contribute.
    Last edited by Mobile Mob; 12-22-2017 at 01:07 PM. Reason: edit

  16. #16

    Re: EVE Revamp

    EvE is perfect, but maybe this idea can be use to make another in game game.

    But ppl spent ton of cash to be the best in the game as the rules allowed them. But to penalize ppl for the way they built their toon ( to be they biggest and baddest) at this point is unfair.
    If this was established at the beginning, then they could they built their toons accordingly.

    Now I'm not able to play with my friend because I spent money on my toon and they didn't? We play for fun and all play together win or lose, big or small

    This could be a new in game game. Where that I knew about the rules first-hand and can strategize accordingly

  17. #17
    Underboss Quaranj's Avatar
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    Re: EVE Revamp

    I want an EvE simulator against bots like that beta Kabam had in their UE clone.

    You got awards for certain challenges and you had to have certain strengths/or skills to progress which staggered the awards.

  18. #18
    Underboss Quaranj's Avatar
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    Re: EVE Revamp

    Also, I really liked Shifty's ideas on spicing up weekend wars. It randomized some elements to make things interesting and would force some strategy changes based on what perks landed where. I think the ideas he proposed would be a lot of fun.

  19. #19

    Re: EVE Revamp

    I have a idea, some bigger empires may not like this but the game is dominated by mid-range level empires so here it goes: The next Diamond level war you win that pushes your empire into Legend a cool thing happens that kind of levels the playing field. Two empires that made it to Legend from Diamond combine forces for the next two matches. I know it sounds crazy but most Diamond empires that get promoted to Legend usually see a Legend empire that lost their past two matches. It was probably against top tier empires so this theroy would allow a empire that usually has 15-25 actives to combine with another similiar active empire in hopes of winning a Legend match. Hence why it would only be the next two matches and with the same empire.

    I think this would be the key to getting long term Diamond empires to think about merging. This would also spark a explosion of better competition both for the combined empires and the Legend empire. It would also get big players that are in a casual Platinum empire to think about progressing further and maybe join or merge with the Diamond population. Ive read tons of threads pertaining to how there is way too many empires. Something like this may make it a interesting journey if it did work out where more and more empires start to merge.

    Dont get upset with my request please. Its just me dreaming of a way to allow the smaller empires the chance at something great. On the flip side, the Legend empire that had to face off against the combined empires get the win...loots should be rewarded. This would encourage the Legend community to welcome this idea. Peace
    Last edited by Aprilwine; 12-20-2017 at 11:36 PM.
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