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Thread: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

  1. #1

    [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    First , I am very appreciated with the quick response of the new dev from Gaea.

    Please help me and the player base know more about the game we play so we have more in-depth thinking on how to build our character in the future update.
    Other players If you know the answer for these questions, please answer it, thanks everyone.

    1. What is the detailed information about Veteran skill ?

    UWE_Duke: Good Question, I think these information was hidden because it was decided there was too much to explain. Details are listed below:
    Level 1: Class Coins: +10, Damage Mitigation: 0%, Health Bonus: 0%, Damage Bonus: 15%
    Level 2: Class Coins: +13, Damage Mitigation: 0%, Health Bonus: 0%, Damage Bonus: 20%
    Level 3: Class Coins: +17, Damage Mitigation: 5%, Health Bonus: 2%, Damage Bonus: 22%
    Level 4: Class Coins: +21, Damage Mitigation: 30%, Health Bonus: 4%, Damage Bonus: 24%
    Level 5: Class Coins: +25, Damage Mitigation: 35%, Health Bonus: 6%, Damage Bonus: 25%
    Level 6: Class Coins: +26, Damage Mitigation: 35%, Health Bonus: 7%, Damage Bonus: 25%
    Level 7: Class Coins: +27, Damage Mitigation: 35%, Health Bonus: 8%, Damage Bonus: 25%
    Level 8: Class Coins: +28, Damage Mitigation: 35%, Health Bonus: 9%, Damage Bonus: 25%
    Level 9: Class Coins: +29, Damage Mitigation: 35%, Health Bonus: 10%, Damage Bonus: 25%

    The Damage Mitigation % and Damage % are EvE only, so not included in the sub stats values hide in Class Power page.

    It seems the information is not too long, so I will update the Veteran skill description later to reveal these details in game.


    2. We know that attack stats will convert 70% of it to defense when you defending and vice versa ( Is this only applies for the player stats ( Player attack and defense), or attack and defense power ? )

    UWE_Duke: It applies to both. Calculation for "power", for example attack power, is to have (Player Attack + LT Attack + Item Attack) + 0.75 * (Player Defense + LT Defense + Item Defense). Well in Underworld the factor is 0.75 instead of 0.7. Maybe Castle Age is 0.7, which I am not sure. defense power is calculated the same way.

    3. What is the formula for counter damage , damage when you deal to other player in EvE ?

    UWE_Duke: This is a question I cannot give you too much detailed information, because this is a part we need to have control over with to adjust EvE balance and do not want to cause too much troubles when we change it.

    However, I can tell you some rules that will not likely to be violated even when we tweak the formula:
    1. Base damage is calculated based off of: your base attack (white number), your attack power, defender's base defense (white number), defender's defense power.
    2. Base attack contributes to 80% or higher to the damage bonus in the formula.
    3. Base defense contributes to 80% or higher to the damage mitigation bonus in the formula.
    4. Counter damage is a % of base damage you can do to the attacker, just doesn't include any active skill/LT bonus except for a few like Bulldog. Reaper/hyena/vigilante/red countess/poppy/Midas/Gman directly buff the base damage, so they automatically work for counter dmg as well.
    5. Attacker does 50% base damage on a loss to the same target and 100% on a win.
    6. When attacker's attack is over defenders defense, attacker's damage increases faster when the difference is small and slower when it's large.
    7. When defender's defense is over attacker's attack, attacker's damage decreases faster when the difference is small and slower when it's large.
    (I may add more to this later but so much for now)

    4. We are taught that Titan/Enforcer is strong for defending, but if you have more defense stats, you tend to give out smaller counter damage when defend, and nanosuits/deflect proc chance is lower than Ghost's dodging spree and do not additive stack with Dodge LT like Straffe/Surgeon/Edge ; However, when the Dodge LT procs (specifically Straffe), it does say " You Negated the attack and gained X Armor ".

    UWE_Duke: As you can see from 3, your counter damage is more determined by your attack stats. Dodging spree should be additive to strafe/surgeon/edge. WarLog may treat strafe the same way as Nanosuit, but nano suit is not dodge. We have many small issues in WarLog but I do not think we have the time to fix everything there.

    5. I do understand that Player attack/defense is just your stats points , This applies for LT like Irina, Fiori, Violence, etc And Attack Power/Defense Power is all your toon stats counted ( stats, weapon, LTs,etc) , This applies for LT like : Drake, Illusionist, Exterminator, Wildcard.
    Other LT like : Crimson, Chopper, Mayday, the skill description is : Decrease OP Attack/Defense and Increase Player Attack/Defense , Is this Player stats or Player's power ?


    UWE_Duke: Crimson/Chopper/Mayday proc on the action of attack/defend, and the steal amount is calculated based of off the player/target base stats (white number). Not power.

    6. Most of us have used Hotwire when PVP, her skill says 1% , but everyone experience that her chance procs more than what she should be. Are there any area in the game that boosts chance power ? Or there are some specific LT that procs more than it should be ?

    UWE_Duke: Hotwire procs at 1% for each stamina. If you do 80 stam hit, it will try to roll the dice 80 times, I think that makes you think she procs more frequent than she should.

    7. There are few LTs with different wording but their chance is added up in the information above your class, for example : Mr Nuts ( Damage Mitigation), Malina ( Shield x % ), Six ( Shield x%) , are those ability the same thing or different ?

    UWE_Duke: On another thread maybe a year ago (I cannot find where), the team made a post about some EvE rebalance. One of the change is to make damage mitigation LTs stack in a multiplicative way rather than additive. Reason for this was to avoid 100% damage mitigation.
    Mr. Nuts/Malina/Six, are the SAME power. However they do not stack additively now. In other words, they can be viewed as different powers because multiplicative stacking is typical for different powers.

    8. Are those damage LT work for building ? ( Hyena, Agent O ).

    UWE_Duke:
    List of LTs works for everything (building/counter/splash): Reaper/Hyena/Vigilante/Gman/Midas/Red Countess/Poppy/Dominee
    List of LTs works for building: Backfire/Dozer
    List of LTs works for counter: Bulldog
    List of LTs works for splash: MorningStar/Rocket/Valkyrie/Whiplash

    All the rest LTs not mentioned above and saying they are buffing damage (always or chance/situation based), are for the main target only.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    UWE_Duke: I could be wrong or missing some information somewhere in the above answers, just trying to give the best answer based on my knowledge. Game evolves and it is also not easy for developer to keep up with the latest things. I appreciate your understanding.

    One more thing I want to clarify here because I have seen so many have been talking about it:

    Deflect chance is 5%/10%/15% and has never changed for any reason. If you feel deflected more that's really just bad luck. lol

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. Azura Power , Increase all bonus damage by 5 % at 1 star. What exactly is the bonus damage ? For example : Precise Blade lv1 Deal 210% Base Damage, Does it count 5% of the additional 110% ? This is just an example and I do not really fully understand her ability, please clarify.

    UWE_Duke: What you said is correct, it counts 5% of the additional 110%. So if you are using 2 token attacks, or Red Countess/Poppy, Azura will gain some nice bonuses. And also, Azura works for buildings as well. For splash, Azura only buffs the Whiplash/Valkyrie/MorningStar/Rocket increasing part.

    2. Reine Power vs Vice . Let's take an example of 3* Reine and 4* Vice
    - 3* Reine : On low health, chance to x2 damage
    - 4* Vice : Clone 65%.
    So, If you do 1000 Damage, With Reine Proc, You would do 2000 Damage , With Reine Proc, Strengthened by Vice, You would do 1000 + (165% x Clone x2 Damage(200%)) = 3300 Damage ? ( Well I have tested and apparently my damage was tripled when they both proced together. Am I correct in this case?

    UWE_Duke: Vice clones the chance part, doesn't clone the damage part.

    3. Exterminator Power , + Attack Power on Win ( Max 2%) at 1* . How many tokens to achieve this max ? How many stamina would I do in PVP/Boss to achieve this max ? When will it expire in case of PVP? ( Change target, change boss, certain amount of time, when I swap my load out ? ).

    UWE_Duke: This question was answered before. 10 token to achieve max. Counter for PvP and EvE are separate. Expires in 20 mins if not refreshed with hits. Swap load out/seats should not reset it. Resets to 0 if defeated (offensive or defensive)

    4. Pitbull Power , When player stats reduced by Opponent, reduce that amount of loss by x %.

    UWE_Duke: This power works for Chopper/Illusionist/Crimson/Mayday, also Tigress/Azeron and LTs like them. Ask other players about this power, a lot of people know this.

    5. You mentioned about the revamp in Dice Job. What would be the change we are expecting ? A tiny easter egg would be very special for us .

    UWE_Duke: No comment for now.

    6. I do understand that Legendary and Epic Craft Part are extremely rare when hunting Boss and there is a certain points you need to reach in order to have a chance of obtaining them. I would love to know the required points as well as the drop rate of Legendary/ Epic Craft Parts/ Faction Insignia.

    UWE_Duke: There should be boss threshold tables made by players. Please ask around. They should be accurate. Hitting the max threshold should be the best way to get what you need.

    7.Whiplash Power. I have tested her many times and her whiplash x only happens to 1 target at a time, never both, and the chance appears to be very high ( I experience it myself and whiplash procs almost as twice as what it is written, is that because the splash procs on 1 target so we get compensated on double the chance ? )

    UWE_Duke: Whiplash proc on different targets independently, also herself has +x% splash, that's another splash damage source that can be proc with Whiplash. So it would appear that whiplash proc a lot. Math is not wrong, however implementation might be a bit confusing here.

    8. Could us players get a hint of when will be new update/ events in the future ? Events lately have been announced only a day or two before it started. Some of us were not prepared to have time/ money for it.

    UWE_Duke: We have been trying to announce it as soon as possible, but the timeline is usually very tight for us to get everything ready for an event say 3 days before the deadline. Many things could change during 3 days, and we do not want to give out any false alarms for event if there's any chance that we will postpone it.


    Discussion :

    1. Balanced in Player build and class distribution in empire.

    I know that there is 4 Main class ( Demo/Enforcer/Sniper/Assassin) and their upgraded class.

    However, 3 out of 4 class, the super requires you to have more attack power ( This does not really help out balanced and defense build)

    There are a number of LT that is too strong for attack build / offense player Illusionist 9* is (-5% Defense Power) , Chopper ( decrease both Opponent A/D and gain the attack) .
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 01-03-2017 at 06:59 AM. Reason: Answer Question

  2. #2

    Re: To the Dev : Please help us clarify these following game mystery if possible

    Questions Answered.

    Thanks,

  3. #3

    Consigliere Game Guru

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    Re: To the Dev : Please help us clarify these following game mystery if possible

    Answers very much appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by UWE_Duke View Post
    Questions Answered.

    Thanks,

  4. #4

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    You guys r doing a very good job so far and it's only been a couple days thank you for the responses to all these mysteries...

  5. #5

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Thank you very much! I always wondered about veteran level.

  6. #6

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Where's Poppy??

    UWE_Duke: Thank you for pointing this out. Poppy has the same skill as Red Countess, I updated this above.

    UWE_Duke:
    List of LTs works for everything (building/counter/splash): Reaper/Hyena/Vigilante/Gman/Red Countess/Midas
    List of LTs works for building: Backfire/Dozer
    List of LTs works for counter: Bulldog
    List of LTs works for splash: MorningStar/Rocket/Valkyrie/Whiplash
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Answer Question

  7. #7

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by DFish View Post
    Thank you very much! I always wondered about veteran level.
    I always thought veteran level increased your chance powers as well. Is Lady Luck the only way to increase chance powers then?

    UWE_Duke: No veteran doesn't increase chance powers. Lady Luck is the only one I know of to increase that.
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 04:55 AM. Reason: Answer Questions.

  8. #8

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    In the wiki it claims the veteran level when attacking someone of higher or lower veteran level is what gives the damage boost and mitigation reduction?

    Also in regards to the change in mitigation multiplicative effects. Does that mean damage boosts are multiplicative or straight additions?

    Say, 9*hyena(20%)+ 9* vice (20%)+ 9* Dozer (10*) if demoing.

    Would it be 100(base damage) + 20(hyena) + 20(vice) + 10(Dozer) for 150 total.

    100+20(base+hyena)= 120+24(new base+vice) = 144+14.4(newer base+Dozer)=158.4?

    It may be a dumb question but curious

    UWE_Duke: For damage, same power, for example Reaper/Hyena/Countess and etc, are additive. Different powers are multiplicative. So it is easy to see if you have 5 LTs with 10% damage bonus but having different power (1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1 - 1 = 61%), is better than 5 LTs with same % but having same power (10% * 5 = 50%).
    There could be infinite questions about different combinations, but if you know this rule, you can calculate your benefits better.
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 04:58 AM. Reason: Answer Questions.

  9. #9
    Street Boss Quaranj's Avatar
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    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Christmas came a little early this year!

    Seriously, after feeling like we've been waiting a long time for the devs to throw us a bone on these longstanding questions, you have just served up a buffet here!

    I am in awe.

    Thank you so much!!!!

  10. #10

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by Quaranj View Post
    Christmas came a little early this year!

    Seriously, after feeling like we've been waiting a long time for the devs to throw us a bone on these longstanding questions, you have just served up a buffet here!

    I am in awe.

    Thank you so much!!!!
    It's unreal, I almost feel like we have been the blind leading the blind. So many different things were thrown around.

    Duke I have a question.

    What is piercing?

    I remember being told that it was damage that couldn't be mitigated by any skills so essential damage that bypasses all skills.

    Can you verify this? Once again appreciate the extra effort answering questions, I think it will take the load off later when forum members can assist with these questions when new comers arrive.

    UWE_Duke: Piercing is just a name for the skill. It doesn't do anything special. The name was chosen I believe because it was so special when Reaper first came out as an event LT. But lieterally many LTs have the same power now, just number is lower.

    Also, adding a section into the help screen for LT skills with a description for them to scroll through would be awesome.
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 06:59 AM. Reason: Answer Questions.

  11. #11

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Great work, Duke, thank you for answering all the questions.


    I have also one, regarding to counterdamage. unfortunately I don't find the original post to make a quote, but I think you said only Bulldog increases counterdamage. Is there no other way to increase counterdamage, including lts like Hyena, GMan or any other damage lt or even the extra + 5% damage from rank 27? (other than the obvious get stonger, put your stats in attack).
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 02:00 PM.

  12. #12

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Great work, Duke, thank you for answering all the questions.


    I have also one, regarding to counterdamage. unfortunately I don't find the original post to make a quote, but I think you said almost only Bulldog increases counterdamage. Is there other way to increase counterdamage, including lts like Hyena, GMan or any other damage lt or even the extra + 5% damage from rank 27? (other than the obvious get stonger, put your stats in attack).

    Found it:
    "4. Counter damage is a % of base damage you can do to the attacker, just doesn't include any active skill/LT bonus except for a few like Bulldog. "

    UWE_Duke: Base damage can be increased by reaper/hyena and etc. that's why counter damage also benefit from those LTs. I was not very explicit about "a few". I'll reword that entry.
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 02:08 PM.

  13. #13

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by alexian View Post
    Great work, Duke, thank you for answering all the questions.


    I have also one, regarding to counterdamage. unfortunately I don't find the original post to make a quote, but I think you said almost only Bulldog increases counterdamage. Is there other way to increase counterdamage, including lts like Hyena, GMan or any other damage lt or even the extra + 5% damage from rank 27? (other than the obvious get stonger, put your stats in attack).

    Found it:
    "4. Counter damage is a % of base damage you can do to the attacker, just doesn't include any active skill/LT bonus except for a few like Bulldog. "
    Duke said that only bulldog ability is affecting counter damage, there are other LTs that ability that can affects many things at once ( Counter damage, damage dealing, building damage ) : Reaper , Midas, Hyena , Gman, Red Countress, Poppy.

    UWE_Duke: This is correct.
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 02:04 PM.

  14. #14

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Thanks Duke for the fast response and your care to us players

    8. Are those damage LT work for building ? ( Hyena, Agent O ).

    UWE_Duke:
    List of LTs works for everything (building/counter/splash): Reaper/Hyena/Vigilante/Gman/Midas/Red Countess/Poppy
    List of LTs works for building: Backfire/Dozer
    List of LTs works for counter: Bulldog
    List of LTs works for splash: MorningStar/Rocket/Valkyrie/Whiplash

    All the rest LTs not mentioned above and saying they are buffing damage (always or chance/situation based), are for the main target only.

    My question : Reaper/Gman ability is the same as Hyena ? ( Piercing damage & Add up to x % damage) ? Since you mentioned they work for everything.

    UWE_Duke: They are not exactly the same power, because Hyena is conditionally/partially giving damage%, but the damage % given by hyena is no different from Reaper's, just one more step to calculate the % from player attack and defense. (Including both white and green text in stats page).

    Side question : I want to know about the ability of Agent O ( Increase % damage on Non Crit hits) , does it work for counter damage ( I am a defender and receive a non-crit hit, would the counter damage increase with Agent O ability ? ).

    UWE_Duke: If you don't see an LT in the overall bonus category nor in the counter damage category, he/she/it doesn't buff the counter damage. Same logic for splash.
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 02:17 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Just one small thing to highlight... the Tier 1 classes need some changes....for eg.

    1 )Last stand lvl 1 : +300 health, increases counter damage by 15 dmg + 10% of attack damage (req. last defender) (15 damage is like nothing when some ghost hits you for high shots.)

    2) Juggernaut : increase proc rate or the percentage on level 2 or 3.

    UWE_Duke: I understand players want the tier 1 classes rebalanced to be competitive in the current state of the game. I also agree on that. However it is difficult to push something like this as a developer. As a core thing in our game, this needs to be handled correctly and once it's done tier 1 class should be as balanced as tier 2. That takes long design time. While the game is still in a transitional mode, i do not think we will do this very soon. But it's on the list for sure.
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-22-2016 at 02:29 PM.

  16. #16

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by Massmurder View Post
    In the wiki it claims the veteran level when attacking someone of higher or lower veteran level is what gives the damage boost and mitigation reduction?
    Link, please ?
    The wonderful thing about the wiki is that anyone can fix things that are wrong, but it has thousands of pages, so a post saying "the wiki says X" is not very helpful...

  17. #17

    Consigliere Game Guru

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    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    I have learnt a lot about some game mechanics i wasn't clear on from this thread than I have in 4 years going now of playing UE. Awesome!

  18. #18

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by Squiffle View Post
    Link, please ?
    The wonderful thing about the wiki is that anyone can fix things that are wrong, but it has thousands of pages, so a post saying "the wiki says X" is not very helpful...
    Veteran skill mini-guide
    As far as I tested veteran skill (lvl 5), I sorted out theses effects :

    Bonus cc per war, this amount is flat and defeat/victory/dojo/war pts won't modify this bonus :
    lvl 1 : +9,5cc
    lvl 4 : +27,5cc
    lvl 5 : +27,5cc
    ex : you did 2030 pts, lost and have vet 1, you'll get 20,3 + 9,5 = 29,8 (30cc) The amount is always rounded up.
    +2% health per lvl starting at lvl 3
    When attacking a player and winning : +10 dmg dealt, -5 dmg taken per lvl
    When attacking a player and losing : +5 dmg dealt, -10 dmg taken per lvl
    When defending and winning : -5 dmg taken, +10 counterattack dmg per lvl
    When defending and losing : -10 dmg taken, +5 counterattack dmg per lvl
    The bonus dmg can be influenced by dmg reduction (like suppress and concealed shot) and critical strikes (including HS and Reine's ability)

    In conclusion, Veteran skill greatly increase combat efficiency and should always be upgraded as high as possible, 👉but take into account that the opponent's veteran lvl will undo yours.👈

    This was part of the wiki and I found the original post. Apparently player made info and was never confirmed or denied by past devs. If Duke can confirm or deny then the wiki can be changed finally

  19. #19

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Awesome Duke! Can you tell me if Lady Luck has any effect on Drops, scratchers or crate rolls if seated?

    UWE_Duke: Noooooo...
    Last edited by UWE_Duke; 12-23-2016 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Answer Questions.

  20. #20

    Re: [Answered] Please help us clarify these following game mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by Massmurder View Post
    Veteran skill mini-guide
    You mean http://underworldempireforums.com/sh...hlight=veteran ? That's not the wiki.

    The wiki (at http://underworld-empire.wikia.com/w...an_Class_Skill) did used to say this:
    In addition, the phrase "All around bonus" does not pertain to additional damage, increase in percentage, nor the increase of the execution range. (Side note: what the phrase "All around bonus" is actually talking about is up in the air; for now it just means extra coins which would be redundant.)
    (First of all the phrasing is taken directly from in game which is why it's not clarified in the table. Additionally veteran's effects have been tested and with some people pitching in, the following has been compiled.
    +2% health per lvl starting at lvl 3
    When attacking a player and winning : +10 dmg dealt, -5 dmg taken per lvl
    When attacking a player and losing : +5 dmg dealt, -10 dmg taken per lvl
    When defending and winning : -5 dmg taken, +10 counterattack dmg per lvl
    When defending and losing : -10 dmg taken, +5 counterattack dmg per lvl
    which actually does seem to be pretty accurate.

    It never "claim[ed] the veteran level when attacking someone of higher or lower veteran level is what gives the damage boost and mitigation reduction"

    Regardless, I've updated that wiki page (and hence all the class pages) to reflect the info given in this thread.

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